>> that is all the time i have for today. i'm alicia menendez. thank you for spending part of your saturday with us. you can be sure to follow the show on twitter. on instagram, and on tiktok, we are at alicia on msnbc. i will see you tomorrow for more american voices. but for now, i handed over to my colleague, ayman mohyeldin. hello ayman. >> haley sia. it's good to see you. i've been away for a couple weeks. you know when you go away and you come back you're trying to get caught up on work. i try to figure out, what do i start with? is it the debt ceiling, do i go into the presidential politics of the candidates in the gop field. do i look at the file. what do i what do start with? i start off with. -- i will tell you to that point, as i was prepping for the show the rnc the first debate is august and i was like this august? are we there already?

>> were there. we're officially there, my friend. >> have a good show, welcome back, we missed. you >> good evening to you, and welcome to ayman tonight. there are tapes, new reporting on that incriminating trump report about a classified documents that he had in his possession after he left the white house. then the porcelain candidate, that is how ron desantis is being described after refusing to engage with reporters, but how long can he hide in his safe space? and, republican rollback, the latest gop trend is loosening child labor laws and i'm going to speak with democratic senator john hickenlooper, one of the most outspoken critics of that effort. and much more. i'm ayman, let's get started. caught on tape. in an astounding developments, nbc news can now confirm that

special counsel jack smith's office has obtained an audio recording of donald trump admitting that he retained a classified document from his time at the white house. now, on that tape trump acknowledges that he was in possession of a sensitive military documents related to iran, and confirmed that it was classified. now, a source tells nbc news the recording was made during a july 20 21st meeting at trump's golf club in new jersey, with people who were helping ex white house chief of staff mark meadows write his memoir. nbc news has not heard the tape, but can report that it has been provided to the grand jury investigating the matter. of course, trump denied knowing anything about this and said that everything he did with classified documents was quote, right. trump might claim that he doesn't know anything, but that doesn't mean the recording doesn't exist and if it does, it would strike at the core of his defense. because trump has long maintained that he had the

constitutional authority as a commander in chief to declassify all material that he took with him when he left the white house. believe it or not, even last year he claimed that he could be classified documents just by quote, thinking about it. but on this tape, he explicitly mentions that the material is still classified. several sources told the guardian that during that recording trump can be heard talking about how he couldn't discuss the details of the document, because he no longer possesses the sweeping presidential power to declassify. now according to the guardian, trump expressed regret about not declassifying the documents, when he had the chance. this suggests trump not only knew he had retained material that was sensitive to national security, but was also well aware of the limitations around him in discussing it, and at the proper declassification process. you can't just think you're way out of a declassification. remember this was 2021.

this was months before trump was forced to hand over several boxes of documents to the national archives. and more than a year before, mar-a-lago was ultimately raided by fbi agents, who recovered even more secret and highly classified documents. and to make matters worse, there is new reporting from the new york times that suggests that the secret material that trump referenced in that 2021 meeting may still be missing, and may still be at large. now, late yesterday the times reported that after learning about this recording, federal prosecutors issued a subpoena to trump's lawyers, seeking the documents returned. trump's legal team has now informed the justice department that they were unable to find any such records in his possession. so as more details a merge, and the timeline of this continues to become clearer by the day, trump's handling of this entire affair seems to be a master class in what not to do. all you have to do is look at mike pence.

he was also accused of mishandling classified material, and nbc news now reports that the justice department has closed its investigation into pence, with no charges filed. i guess you can make the argument that mike pence did things by the book. he returned the materials to the authorities, he agreed to cooperate with the investigators, in fact, he even sat down for an interview. now that that investigation has run its course, he can actually put that matter behind him. the same can't be said for donald trump. let's bring in my panel this evening, former congressman -- former federal prosecutor and melissa murray, professor of law at new york university and co-host of the strict scrutiny podcast. all three are msnbc analysts. it's great to have all of you with us. cynthia, let me start with you on this. break down these latest developments for us and the impact at this tape could have on jack smith's case. >> well, first of all, just

from jump let me say that jack smith's case is already good. so let's remember that. and let's also remember that classified document is not required for the statutes that we're talking about. that trump will likely be charged with. so, with that in mind, this tape muddies trumps waters. and the way it does it is either he is admitting he has classified documents, which is illegal, he is not returning them, even though they then requested, and now he has the story that they can't find it. and let's also remember that he has lied to his lawyers in the past. so he can't really trust his -- the lawyers can't find it, because he -- he has misled his lawyers in the past. or, he made the whole thing up because he was mad at general milley and he had to come up with a quick lie to explain his behavior, which wouldn't be shocking given what we saw in

the e. jean carroll case. and it also highlights, as you did, that he understands the difference with the classification that he doesn't have the power to always do it. so it muddies his waters in many different ways, but jack smith already has a very strong case for the espionage act, the retraining of documents act, the 1001 having an agent lied to the doj for him, and the obstruction. so i think it makes the memo longer, but the memo is pretty complete. >> congressman, let's talk about confidential material here for a moment. you served as a lawmaker, you had access to confidential material, you had intelligence briefings. what do you make of these reports that trump allegedly handled extensive military documents in a room full of biographers, clearly people who i would say, safe to say at least, did not have the proper security clearances. did that pose a possible

national security threat, that donald trump has a document allegedly showing something militarily to do with iran in his possession outside of a secure zone? >> it could, amen, and it's pretty clear that this was kind of why donald trump did this. he wanted to take these documents to post that he had them, maybe to show off, who knows if you wanted to monetize these documents or this information in some way. that's why his case is complicated. i think in the case of former vice president pence, it was clear that this was something inadvertent, careless for sure, one thing congress does better than the executive's handle classified material. members of congress are not walking around with classified material or taking classified material to their homes -- at the capitol, that's where you review classified information. you leave it there, you can't take it. the executive branch really has to learn a little bit from congress in this regard. but, in trump's case, yes.

he is out there talking about this information, showing off, telling people about it and of course that could pose a serious threat to national security. it could get people killed. >> melissa, let me ask you about this revelation yesterday that the document that trump discussed on this reported recording has still not been located. and if the material is still missing, how does that impact the case? >> so, again, i think it's really important here, if you cannot find this documents, if it still missing, you still make the case that something has not been turned over properly. it's gone missing. which might even strengthen jack smith's case about the retention of documents issue. to the point of the congressman just made, it's not simply that the retention of these documents, they're careless handling poses real concerns for national security in terms of those in the field who might be compromised, because of this information being handled so loosely. it also, and again the losing

of this document may underscore this. it means that our allies cannot trust us with this kind of information going forward. so it makes it much harder for members of the intelligence community to function, and to work with foreign intermediaries to keep us safe. so again, there is a lot here and all of it goes to the question around the nature of -- which is about preventing national security information from being handled -- compromising the national security more broadly, and focuses on the idea that those in control of these documents have to control them safely and cannot withhold them willfully or knowingly. >> it's such an important point that you brought up, which is besides the legal aspect of all of this, our allies are watching thinking my god, if we gave the americans any secret information, they might end up in mar-a-lago and who knows where else. cynthia, after this news broke, it was expected on mike pence, the news broke that mike pence's investigation being dropped, you had trump react on

truth social, he did it quickly. he posted this asking, what am i going to be fully exonerated? i am at least as innocent as he is. let's talk about the differences in these cases. i think time it makes people forget. these are very different cases, and even if there were any similarities, donald trump was asked to hand over documents, asked to cooperate, the only reason why we are at this point is because the subpoena was issued when him and his lawyers did not cooperate and ultimately that led to the fbi raid. very different, even if they started from the same point, the result and the outcomes have been very different. >> right. i don't think they start at the same point, but let's just say they did for arguments sake. what this shows you is when you find documents that you are not supposed to have, and if you call the department of justice and tell them, if you allow a voluntary search instead of blocking one, if you don't have your lawyers lie to the doj and instead they tell the truth, if

you agree to an interview instead of hiding, if you don't move boxes around secretly, if you don't have security tapes that are not turned over properly and may have gaps in them, if you don't tell three different stories about what happened and make up known's and stories about how you declassified them, then the light will shine upon you in the department of justice. >> yeah. >> the department of justice is busy. they do not have time to prosecute innocent people. >> i was going to say. i feel like the department of justice would probably give former executives and officers in the executive branch the benefit of the doubt as they did with mike pence. but donald trump just -- >> there is not time to prosecute these people cooperating and doing the right thing. even if you want to. they're too busy. >> yeah. melissa, let me ask you about this new reporting from the new york times regarding jack smith's investigations. the other one this time into trump's alleged election

subversion efforts. the times is reporting that smith has subpoenas staff members from the trump white house who may have been involved in firing the governments top cybersecurity official you -- got to know very well, five days after his agency judged the election as quote, the most secure in american history. that is of course at odds with how the trump narrative was around the election. how does -- firing factor into smith's a broader case around election interference? >> hard to say, we don't know the contours of that case. but you can imagine based on what we do know that part of the firing really feeds into the narrative that donald trump didn't want to accept any information that discredited his own discredited theory of how the election was stolen from him by joe biden. so having his top cybersecurity advisers say there were no server security problems -- and when that was made and when that was presented to him, that he later fired this --

seems more like retaliation. and it goes to this question of intent. did donald trump know that what he was saying was false, and did he go forward stating those falsehoods, even in the face of very credible evidence from people who know and have expertise, saying that in fact it was not the case that the election was stolen? >> congressman, really quickly i'm going to spitball here. for republicans like jim jordan serious about weaponization and investigating weaponization of the government, would krebs's firing be a good place to start? >> 100 percent. and really what's shocking is that so many republicans have rushed to endorse donald trump, even florida republicans with all of these controversies, scandals, and criminal exposure. they are not going to use these committees to investigate trump or any of the people around him, instead, they have rushed to endorse a donald trump, someone who by the time primary season

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but we've never actually seen his legal team as fractured as it was this week. according to reporting from the guardian, former trump lawyer evan corcoran told a grand jury that he had been steered away from looking inside trump's office as he searched mar-a-lago for classified documents in response to a justice department subpoena. the guardian says that corcoran did not specify who waved him off of the state search, but months later, as we now know, the fbi ended up seizing more than 100 classified documents, including in that office that he was told not to search. so the guardian says this suggest that evan corcoran was a materially misled as the special counsel jack smith examines whether his and complete search was actually a ploy by trump to retain classified documents, this comes as rolling stone -- the rolling reports that trump has asked at least one of his personal attorney's and close advisers if that person knew the names of senior fbi agents

and justice department personnel who were working on the federal probe is investigating him. trump said that he wanted the doj to purge those officials, if he was reelected. and on top of all of that, there is new anxiety within the trump legal team that someone among them is a double agent. and already cooperating with federal investigators. who knows? how did he even get that recording in the first place? my panel is back with me. cynthia, let me start with you with evan corcoran here. based on this guardian reporting, you've got this former trump lawyer saying that he was told that mar-a-lago's storage room was the only situation where classified documents were stored. he was waved off from searching other locations on the property. if you are jacks mitt, what do you make of that? >> what i make of it is with jack smith has already made of, it is that he has figured out that there is a crime fraud

exception and he actually went ahead and got a federal judge to agree with him, and he has the notes. i can't tell you how rare that is. and he obviously is suspicious of the information that corcoran is getting from his clients. and recognized this kind of interesting, there were a bunch of red flags that cork lynn knew he had a problem. first of all, when it came time to write that a statement that said there are no more documents here, he directed it, but he wouldn't sign it. that's a red flag. and then he gives it to another baby lawyer who's had 1 million other problems and even she wouldn't sign it, and lord knows that woman knows anything. and some kind of disclaimer. and now we also know, which shows there is a huge problem, that cork ridge has been in the grand jury and he kept meticulous long notes like he was writing a novel about every conversation that he had. he audiotaped them when he was

driving, and that has been transcribed and given to the grand jury. it sounds like it was so detailed it's beyond lawyers notes and into see why a notes. and that is another red flag. that he knows he's dealing with somebody who is not being straight with him. and so, the federal judge has pierce the attorney client relationship, he has those notes, and now we know what else is happening in his crazy legal team is that parlatore has quit and he is accusing this boris guy of obstructing basically accusing him of obstructing, getting the information from bedminster. so this is a bunch of some kind of beetles in a bottle together, and we are going to watch them fight it out. >> melissa, how strong is the case that trump willfully just fight -- defied the justice department subpoena here? >> we don't know the scope of the evidence that jack smith has here. we know snippets of things,

basically putting together a lot of these pieces, but it does seem pretty clear here based on the fact that evan corcoran is taking these notes surreptitiously that he at least understood that perhaps he was not being given correct information, or at least accurate information about what was being responsive to the subpoena. so that is really material here, given the fact that a big part of the case that we think jack smith is trying to make against the former president really turns a lot on his intent. did he know that he was keeping these documents willfully, and unlawfully? and that's a big part of what is going on here. so i think that is a huge part of this case. >> i always say with republicans, certainly this brand of republican, it is all about projection and what they do is actually just projects -- when it comes to this issue of weaponization. what do you make of trump allegedly discussing a potential purge of doj and fbi officials who were tasked with investigating him, if he were

to get back into the white house? >> that really hits home for me. my family had to flee cuba in 1959, because institutions collapsed. and illegitimate government took over and started purging people. so, this is really so anti american. and so shocking to hear someone say. and not just say it, you know that he intends to do it because we saw some of that during his last days in office. and, our institutions are strong in america, a man, but institutions rely on people who are willing to play within the rules. that's why i don't like when people diminish what mike pence did on the 6th of january. even someone like mitch mcconnell who stood up and said no, we can't do this. i know people have a lot of disagreements with him for other reasons, but institutions require people who are willing to play by the rules. and donald trump knows no rules,

and he is willing to purge people to do whatever it takes to return and remain in power. for me, given my family's history, that's just very disconcerting. >> we all have institutions, we don't have a society. thank you to the three of you for joining us this evening. up next, democratic congressman brad schneider joins me live to discuss the debt limit deal and why he voted in support of it. stay with us. stay with us ugh covid-19? i'm not waiting. if it's covid, paxlovid.

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passing of the heavily contested debt ceiling bill. today he signed it into law, avoiding a catastrophic default. just days before the treasury departments in june 5th fiscal deadline. the bill passed across bipartisan lines in the senate 63 to 36 with 31 republicans voting against it. the house saw even more republican defections, with 71 no votes. the blow back from far-right republicans, as you can imagine, happened fast and slave with many feeling betrayed by mccarthy for not coming through on their demands for more concessions. now some even threatened to oust him from the speakership. this wasn't a win by any stretch of the imagination for mccarthy, as some are casting it. he might have secured an agreement with joe biden, but he does costume support from a section of his caucus that is already skeptical of his leadership. as the new york times puts it, the delivery of this deal was not pretty, in fact it was downright ugly. he managed to do so only with significant help from across the aisle, as democrats rescued him on a key procedural vote

and then provide the support needed for passage. joining me now to discuss this is democratic congressman brad schneider of illinois. he voted in favor of the debt ceiling. congressman, it's great to see you again, thanks for coming back on the show. we will get into the specifics of it in a moment, but make the case for us of why you supported this bill. >> well, thank you for having me on tonight as well. the bottom line is, we avoided a catastrophic default that would have cost millions of jobs for small businesses, it would have devastated our economy and our role in the world. we never should have been in this place, republicans tried to hold the country and the economy hostage, but at the end of the day we got a compromise deal. we found common ground, we save the economy, we protected social security, medicare, medicaid, and we live to fight another day. >> as you are fully aware, some of your colleagues perhaps progressives voted against the bill, including your fellow

congresswoman -- ramirez of illinois who called the concessions cruel policies that will punish every day people. you just also described that we shouldn't have gotten to this position, which i think a lot of people can agree with, and republicans did hold us hostage. but if they hold us hostage to get the concessions, does that not mean that they won? >> not at all. at the end of the day, as president biden said, i never thought i would hear president biden -- will you get what you need. the bottom line is, we protected social security, we protect a democratic priorities including at the infrastructure and jobs act, the pact act, chips and signs act as well as the protection act. all of those things that we accomplished in the last congress that were historic pieces of legislation, we continue to move forward on every one of those. where i had agree with -- is that people are going to be hurt by some of the concessions that we made, and we have to go back and fight to make sure that we bring everyone forward, that we let no one fall through

the cracks, minority communities, and in particular women over age 60 50 who were particularly targeted. among those that is going to be black women that will be disproportionately affected. >> does it bother you at all -- i think some americans would not be aware that included things like extending the pipeline from west virginia to southern virginia, and things that had nothing to do necessarily with the debt ceiling. but does that part of the process make it difficult for americans to believe in this process as a compromise, as opposed to just simply trading with one another? seeing that the concessions that were made here, how does this administration make the case going forward that the democratic party has at the best interest of the american people at heart here? >> i was disappointed the pipeline was included as part of this package. but as president biden noted, this was an agreement made with senator -- to pass the inflation reduction act.

and this act had the largest investment in climate change in our nation's history, 360 plus billion dollars, including my legislation to support sustainable aviation fuel. it's a huge step forward, you sometimes have to make compromises or find ways to bring people along. part of leading is finding people who will not agree with you entirely but find a way to come on the path that you are trying to take. and i think that the president did exactly that. at the end of the day, you had 165 democrats in the house vote for this bill, 149 republicans, and 63 senators passed the bill on thursday. the president signed it yesterday, or today i guess. >> do you believe kevin mccarthy helped or hurt the process here? the biden administration and at least some officials have said privately that he proved to be a stronger adversary in these negotiation talks then had expected. what are your thoughts on how he came out in this? >> i wasn't in the negotiations, but if i look at the outcome,

first i will criticize the speaker for putting us in this position, for bringing us to the brink. that wasn't necessarily and we should've resolve this months ago. but the president said that in negotiations, people were opened and honest with each other, both sides made concessions and hard choices which is part of what compromise is all about. but they also stuck by their word. and in any type of negotiation, you are only as good as your words and if you are going to have future negotiations you need to stand by what you say, and live up to the promises you make. >> it is clear that the gop is divided here. is it possible, you think, to continue to work with the other side of the aisle with the most extreme house members bring us to the brink of this disaster and threatened to oust kevin mccarthy every time he disagrees with them? >> mccarthy is -- in his case more than any time i've been in congress. he has a chaotic conference,

that's his challenge, what i do know is that nearly two thirds of the republicans in the house voted for this package, three quarters of the democrats and 95% of the new dems made sure we get through that procedural vote, make sure we had enough votes to get this bill to the presidents desk. >> democratic congressman brad schneider, it's always a pleasure. thank you so much for making time for us. >> thank you. >> ahead, ron desantis is being known as the porcelain candidate. we will tell you why next. ou why next. you need. with the money we saved, we tried electric unicycles. i think i've got it! doggy-paddle! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ are you tired of clean clothes that just don't smell clean? only pay for what you need. downy unstopables in-wash scent boosters keep your laundry smelling fresh waaaay longer than detergent alone. if you want laundry to smell fresh for weeks, make sure you have downy unstopables in-wash scent boosters.

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first full week as a 2024 presidential contender, hitting the campaign trail with visits to iowa and new hampshire. and he desperately needed to make a good impression to voters. after this disastrous announcement. >> it's just going to keep crashing, have? >> i'm, it certainly is an incredible honor to have governor desantis make this stop and hausman. oh man, that was painful. well, desantis's calamitous campaign launch, that livestreamed on elon musk's twitter space as you caught a glimpse of that right there was, as we all know by now, chalk full of crashes and glitches. after a 25-minute tech delay,

when desantis finally got the moment that his political team had spent weeks, maybe months negotiating for and preparing for and excited for, there were fewer than 70,000 viewers remaining. that is a significantly smaller audience than his traditional for a campaign launch by any stretch of the imagination. now, let's just for a second here put aside that embarrassing tech failure to talk about what was perhaps the most bizarre part of the spectacle. the decision to launch a presidential campaign and via an audio only social media stream that only a small portion of the american electorate actually still uses. axios called the launch the latest example of desantis's campaign 2024 media strategy what they dump a quote, safe space strategy. so, the man who has done everything in his power to destroy any semblance of safe

spaces for marginalized communities in florida, is basically it now attempting to carry out his presidential campaign from the safety of a conservative friendly cocoon. his insular media operation hazard pioli turned down interview request from national media outlets, with interviewers who would no doubt hold him to account, at least ask him tough questions, that he is so desperately trying to avoid. instead, his prioritized access for far-right outlets seems to be the only thing we are hearing from. like the little known florida publication, the florida standard, which reports suggest was cooked up by desantis's own donors to be a pro desantis platform. this isn't a process that he designed just for his presidential campaign, it has been building over years as governor. this year alone desantis signed at least three major pieces of legislation in private, giving no advanced immediate notice.

not national media, not even florida media. the closed door signings have bills restricting abortion access, expanding florida's controversial school voucher program, now this is because desantis is afraid of the blow back from these bills, he has already been using them as a campaign fought or. instead, it is part of his desperate attempt to try to control the narrative that is around him. see, these private signings give desantis the opportunity to feed the conservative culture war machine on his own terms. but that kind of strategy just doesn't work in the real world, and it certainly won't work on the campaign trail. not for the presidency. look at what happened this week in new hampshire, when desantis faced something foreign to him. a question from a reporter. >> i'm not taking any questions from reporters. >> governor, how come we are not taking questions from

voters? >> this guy is coming up to be talking to me, what are you talking? about are you blind? >> i'm not blind, no. >> okay so people are coming up and talking to me about whatever they want to talk to me about. >> so much for a good impression. there is a difference between a reporter and someone coming up to talk to ron desantis. this is ron desantis's first week as a declared candidate, and he is already having a temper tantrum on the campaign trail. politico puts, that desantis and now confronts the perception that he is a porcelain candidate, glazed and decorative, durable enough but not really built to withstand the blunt impact of trump's hammer, or the full fury of a united democratic party. desantis is safe space strategy can only take him so far. even if he is able to squeak by the gop primaries, once he actually enters the general election, he will need to reach for more voters than what conservative outlets can deliver for him. at some point he will be forced to emerge from his safe space, and actually deal with the real

world. a world with much tougher questions than what he faced this week, and that moment could prove to be too much for this porcelain candidate. we will be right back. l be right back. ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ get 2.9% apr for 36 months plus $1,500 purchase allowance on a 2023 xt5 and xt6 when you finance through cadillac financial. my most important kitchen tool? my brain. so i choose neuriva plus. unlike some others,

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age is just a number, and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein. boost® high protein. now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. learn more at boost.com/tv there is an alarming trend that

is happening in america, republican led states are rolling back job labor laws. in fact ten states have introduced or passed laws that we can child labor standards in the last two years. according to the economic policy institute, which is a nonpartisan nonprofit think tank. there seems to be increased efforts in recent months. just lack -- signed into law a bill allowing teenagers to work longer hours than previously bent -- pregenes will also be able to serve alcohol in restaurants. meanwhile, the labor department reports that there has been a 69% increase in labor law violations since 2018, digging into these numbers thanks to

investigations from nbc news and the new york times, many of those violations stemming from exploitation of migrant children by big companies. earlier, i spoke with senator john hickenlooper of colorado about this and much more. >> senator, it is great to see you again. thank you for making time for us. we often hear republicans tout parental rights when it comes to education, they make the argument that book bans and drag show pants are in the supposed interest of protecting children, but now when you look at the loosening of these child labor laws across the country, it seems clear that republicans really don't have children in their interests at mind. when >> i think that there is no question that we are seeing a lack of a rigor in terms of recognizing that these are migrant children, many of them, and making them work long hours in dangerous situations, often at night, is unacceptable.

children are in this country, we believe that children need to be protected, and held -- recognize that there has to be a higher level of care to make sure that they are not put in risky situations. >> in april, i believe u.s. senator padilla sent a letter to 27 ceos, including those of general mills and target, demanding responses about their compliance with labor laws. have you received any response from them? how do you even hold them accountable, especially as republicans are loosening that these labor laws on the -- >> well, first, this shouldn't happen. so the fact that we're even writing at the letters is a reflection of a problem that shouldn't be here. we shouldn't be dealing with this. we receive responses to all but

two of these companies, but they were carefully curated words written by lawyers. i think we are going to continue to pursue this and follow up to make sure that these companies are doing everything they can to make sure that children are not put in dangerous situations. >> yeah. republicans and these companies are often the faces of this disturbing trend, there was a recent piece in the washington post that outlines how conservative think tanks and groups such as the florida-based a foundation for government accountability are really the strong arms behind these laws, drafting legislation for lawmakers, working the process. is it possible to address the broader problem when so much of the work is quite frankly being done in secret, behind the scenes, away from the public eye? >> that's one of the problems we are dealing with on many levels. the fact that we've got dark money working relentlessly to

try to eke out higher level profits for companies and that should know better. and, in many cases these were contract companies that were working for much larger corporations. but these large corporations have to recognize that they are going to be held responsible for what happens in their facilities. even if it's by a company that is coming into clean after hours on a contract basis. there has to be a level of accountability. and we are going to start looking at how to make sure that we get that level of accountability. >> let me switch gears for a moment and ask you about the big news, the debt ceiling agreement. you voted for the bill, you've also said that the country should never even come close to 80 fault. unfortunately, republicans took us there this time around. why did you ultimately vote in favor of the deal, and what needs to happen so that we don't repeat this issue once

again in 2025? >> i thought when you said the big news, you are going to be talking about the denver nuggets going to the nba finals. just for a moment, but let's be frank. the full faith and credit of the united states of america is an essential part of our economy, on every level. and we should never let its be held hostage for political purposes. that clearly has happened in the past, it happened here, and i believe that we should find a way to separate it. once the federal government spends money, we are obligated to pay that debt. i am all for finding ways to reduce or spending, make government more efficient, make sure that the deficit is reduced. but not if you spend -- not at the expense of putting up full faith and the credits of america at risk.

i will ask you -- >> president biden was just in colorado this week for the u.s. air force academy graduation. the air force has -- for four more space missions as a decision is still imminent on where to place the permanent headquarters of space command. firstly, what does it mean to you that your state is a beneficiary of all these missions, and what do you make of how political the space command decision has become in recent years? >> well, the question about whether to move space command from colorado was pretty much always -- since the late 20th century and then for the last several years when it was reconstituted, it has already been in colorado springs. and it is there for a reason. there is an amazing concentration of aerospace and technology, and intelligence capability in colorado springs. so that the people that are working space command, they are

tasked to keep our satellites -- and keep in mind that it is not just our satellites -- so phones that use those satellites, it is all of those defense systems and they are the highest priority as part of our natural defense. we have to make sure that that team is in place where they can get the maximum benefit from other like minded professionals. so other people working at high levels of intelligence and aerospace, and that ecosystem is what you find in colorado springs. and that's why they put it there, that's why they should keep it there, they are within a couple of months of what they call fac. full operational capability. given russia's invasion of ukraine, the tensions with china, this amount of time to start moving one of our most key elements of our national defense just doesn't make sense. and so trump said he was going to move it because colorado

didn't perform properly in his opinion in the 2020 elections, that's the last thing that should ever happen with an important decision like this. and it is so intimately connected to our national defense. >> sir, thank you so much for our time. thank you for coming back to the show. >> thank you so much. >> i'm -- there is a second hour of a man coming up after the break. we were going to look at the failing gop campaign to smear president biden. esident biden. wayfair has nice prices so you can have nice things. hah! kelly clarkson, we have a kid... and harold. wayfair's got just what you need... performance fabrics, stains don't stand a chance. no chance! -woo! dog friendly and wallet friendly... pug-proved. get nice things with nice prices at wayfair. ♪ wayfair, you've got just what i need ♪

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